It's a brand new season of the Gettin' Buzz'd podcast! On this episode, Dustin and Michael are talking to HIVE Lead Developer Tyler West about HubSpot Themes. Take a listen in the video below or keep scrolling to find the complete transcript.
Dustin: Hey, everybody, welcome back to another episode of Gettin' Buzz'd. This is actually our third season — first episode of our third season — which sounds a little crazy. It feels like just yesterday that Michael and I had this terrible idea to spend all our time podcasting. But it's been a lot of fun, and we're excited to kind of kick off the 2021 version of Gettin' Buzz'd.
Today, we're going to be talking about HubSpot Themes — kind of a newer feature that's been rolled out by HubSpot recently and has really kind of changed the game. And with us is Tyler.
Tyler West is our lead developer at HIVE Digital Strategy and has been working in the HubSpot CMS and even back to the COS days for quite a while, building custom modules and now themes and all of these pieces. So excited to get Tyler's perspective on everything. Tyler, do you want to give an intro to yourself?
Tyler: Yeah, thanks, Dustin. Yeah, like like you said, I am our lead developer here at HIVE, and I've been a web developer — frontend developer — for probably about the past five, six years. And I've been in the HubSpot ecosystem for about four of those.
So yeah, I've seen quite a few changes, and I'm very excited about HubSpot Themes. It's kind of revolutionizing the way you can use HubSpot.
Dustin: Awesome. But before we get into that, it's day drinking time, and I think that's the only reason Tyler was like, "Yeah, I'll be on your podcast."
So what is everyone drinking today?
Michael: I'll start. Well, I want to take a step back, because the gap between season two and season three must have been so long for you, Dustin. I didn't even get a chance to finger guns or introduce myself.
Dustin: Oh, that's true.
Michael: So for anybody who isn't familiar with the podcast, I'm Michael Thebeau, co-host of Gettin' Buzz'd. And typically, there's a finger gun moment where Dustin says, "This is Michael Thebeau with me, as always." I get to finger guns. So I'm a little bit ticked off that this is how we're starting Season Three.
Dustin: I messed that all up.
Michael: You may have already been day drinking, but I'll let you know what I'm drinking, Dustin. It's the Lagunitas. To pay a little homage to Tyler and being from the Bay Area — a little something from Lagunitas.
Tyler: It's a good choice. It's a good choice. I went with the original Lagunitas — just the regular IPA.
Michael: I like that IPA man. That's a good beer.
Tyler: It's a good go-to. A good fall-back.
Dustin: They just look — the bottles even just look so cool. It's like, almost like a throwback.
Michael: They've got good branding.
Dustin: Right.
Tyler: Definitely, yeah.
Dustin: And I am not drinking a beer. I'm drinking Breckenridge gin and just soda.
Michael: And a fresh cut of lime.
Dustin: Yep, I got fancy with it today. So cheers.
Michael: Oh, yeah. Cheers, everybody. Thanks for joining us, Tyler.
Tyler: Definitely. Oh yeah, I guess I should open mine. Cheers!
Dustin: Well, you can just show all those empty bottles behind you.
Tyler: Just have an avalanche of glass bottles.
Dustin: Well, cool. So, like I mentioned, we're going to be talking about HubSpot themes. And I think that where we need to start is like, where has the HubSpot CMS come from? Because, you know, for a long time, honestly, it felt like it was like the joke HubSpot. Right? Like nobody wanted it when it was the COS. They even like, branded it weird where every other platform was a CMS — the content management system — but they were like, no, this is a COS. And it just felt like it had no functionality. Or at least not the functionality that you expect from HubSpot product. Right? It was kind of a red headed stepchild.
They had their marketing, their CRM, their sales. They didn't have service at the time. But, you know, they were focused on those hubs. And CMS or COS wasn't even a HubL yet, right. That wasn't even like a focus. There was one level out of the box. That's what you get. And that's just kind of how it worked.
But I'd say over the last couple of years, HubSpot's actually looked at it and said, hey, we actually have a viable product here, right. Like we can build a good CMS. That also does something that no other CMS can do in that's connected directly to your CRM, right. So you can tie everything that you're doing together.
And so they rebranded the CMS, thank god. And really kind of shifted the way that we all, as marketers, kind of think about the HubSpot CMS. And over the last year or so, they've even doubled down and said, OK, we know HubSpot knows that they can't provide everything that somebody is going to need.
And so that's where a marketplace comes in. And with the introduction of theme's now, they've opened up a marketplace where any business can go get a theme. They can go get a module that they need — all of those things. So that you can get rolling with your website faster and create a good product. Right?
And one of the kind of big issues previously was the legacy builder. I actually don't know what HubSpot calls that builder. We've just been calling it the legacy builder because it's old, right. And it doesn't function like a theme. But, you know, if you've used HubSpot in the past, you know what it looks like — where you go in and you build a template, right? You're not building a theme. You're building an individual page template where it's drag and drop on that back end, which was always awkward to me. We're using a drag and drop builder where it should be development.
But the you know, the issue was that it wasn't powerful enough on the backend for developers. When we were developing those things, we were bored. There's no functionality. We can't actually create what we want to create. It's all had to fit in these buckets, right? And then on the front end, it didn't give the functionality that a marketer or a salesperson needs.
Even something as simple as — OK, I need this section to have a background color. Previously, you couldn't just do that on the page — you had to go into the template, edit the template, and give it a background color from there. And so we've probably all seen those portals where you have 30 different templates for the same kind of page, but you needed to make a small tweak, right? Like on this page that I wanted to use the template on I need this section to be gray instead of blue. And so we had to create a new template for that instead of just changing the color. It never made sense to me.
Tyler: Yeah, no, I agree. The user experience overall seemed like it was just like a compromise, you know — a compromise between users on the front end and a compromise between developers. It's like they were trying to go middle of the road. While it accomplished what it needed to do and it got things done, it was definitely clunky at times, and it ultimately slowed down the process.
Dustin: Yeah. And it just kind of it felt like it was a compromise in the middle of the road, but it put everyone in a box. Whether there was a developer or front end non-technical person, you didn't have what you needed. You had just enough to get by, but it wasn't that functional. So HubSpot rolled out themes.
It actually felt like kind of a slow rollout where they made the announcement. Some people started to kind of get on board. But even in the marketplace, we were for a long time looking at having only five choices for things. You know, here are the five themes that you can use and that's what you get.
So they did run a them challenge that we took part in that essentially reached out to partners in the HubSpot partner community and said, hey, we want people to be successful with teams and so we need more things in our marketplace. And so it was kind of a big step for HubSpot to really engage their partners and to give end users what they need. And now there are dozens of paid themes, dozens of free things — there's a ton of different options in there. And I feel like they're even better built now.
The ones that came out of the box, those five were so basic that you were still a little bit like in that box. But now there's such a strong vetting by HubSpot to say, OK, your theme, your module, all these things in our marketplace have to hit this level, right? They're not going to put any theme up there. There's just more opportunities and more flexibility for everyone now with a more robust marketplace.
Tyler: Definitely, and I feel like even those those restrictions that they put on just even submit it — that level — it really makes it so if you're a user, if you're going there to get a theme, it gives you some confidence in what you're downloading and what you're going to put your site on is vetted a little bit. You know, it's going to be compatible.
Dustin: Yeah, exactly, and I think that it's like even though it can be a pain in the butt for us, right, as we're admitting modules or themes in the marketplace — there are a lot of hoops you have to jump through and there are a lot of boxes that you have to check — but it's all in the name of good quality. HubSpot never wants to put out crap. If you're familiar with WordPress, you kind of understand the theme concept, right? Like, yeah, you get a theme. It comes with some preloaded plugins there for HubSpot or modules. But it's essentially a set of rules and files that are site wide. It's everything is encapsulated there.
But I think the difference is that with HubSpot marketplace, the quality is so much higher than you get with WordPress because WordPress has no regulation. Anyone and their dog could create a WordPress theme or a WordPress plug in and that's why you get all these issues of like, oh, this plumbing doesn't work with the steam or the these plug ins aren't compatible together. Or oh, crap, my website just went down because I updated a plug in. Whereas that's not really a thing with HubSpot.
Tyler: Right, yeah. You cut out a lot of those inconsistencies and weird quirks of plugins versus WordPress especially.
Dustin: I think one of the big things moving to themes is that the legacy builder — whatever HubSpot wants to call it — is probably going to be sunset in the fairly near future, I would imagine, in favor of themes. But one of the things that you just touched on is consistency, right? There was a struggle with that old builder to maintain consistency through your website. How do you see themes contributing to a more consistent brand?
Tyler: Well, I mean, it's an overarching and overreaching set of rules for your site, because especially if you set your site on the theme then it's going to make every page on the site go by those rules. Versus the legacy builder, there was no central rule set for each page unless you added stylesheets or scripts to them. But that became cumbersome. And and if you didn't update them all the same time, then you had different styles on one page than another.
You know, even basic branding changes. If you wanted to change the color of your brand, you had to go and track that down on every single page, every template, every CTA and swap it out. Versus themes, now you just have to go in and change one global theme setting and you're good to go. It's a lot more flexible.
Dustin: Yeah. And I think that before you could download templates from the marketplace. You could download a home page template. But the problem was you'd get that and it came with stylesheet specific to it and you already had stylesheets. And then so you're trying to mimic styles through multiple stylesheets and track down things to change them. It just became such a headache. There were so many portals that ended up with dozens of style sheets. And it was such a mess because it would take you forever to track down every single instance of a you know, like you said, a color.
Tyler: Right, exactly, and if anyone's familiar with the phrase technical debt, that doesn't help, you know? It only helps contribute towards it. So, yeah, after a while it could be it can be cumbersome for sure.
Dustin: Right. So there's two sides to look at themes, right? There's the back end and the front end. You're dealing mostly with the back end, right? Like building custom themes, modifying themes, things like that. What has your experience been as far as the development side of things versus that legacy builder?
Tyler: It's been almost night and day, especially from a developer perspective. Previously you could only really edit within their code editor — within the design manager. And it's a little clunky. So with themes, they rolled out a lot of options where you can develop and test locally on your own machine, you know, your own code editor. It opened up so many more opportunities that have made things so much easier to roll out. So that alone was huge for me.
But then also, if I'm coordinating with, say, a marketer or a copywriter on the front end, it's a lot easier for them to say what they want in a module. And then I can create that. And it just makes it so much easier for them to use and easier for me to build.
Dustin: Right. I thought it was interesting, like with the old builder — and I guess always there's been...HubSpot has their own language. They call it HubL. It's It's very similar to other languages, but, you know, they have their own kind of style with it and it's always existed — even with that legacy builder. But I felt like we as developers didn't really have access to do much with it. So we were still kind of constrained. If we were building a module or something like that, we used it. But it wasn't used to build a website, really. It was behind the scenes where we could really affect things.
And so that's been kind of interesting for me. We've transitioned to themes and now HubL is a big part of what we do. We all kind of had to go through this process — every agency, every HubSpot developer out there — had to go through this process of, OK, now we need to learn this language and really understand it in order to be able to build a new theme, a new template, header, footer, or whatever.
Tyler: Yeah, definitely. HubL made a huge improvement, and I would say, it's also taken on a bigger role within within HubSpot. Which is nice because it opens a lot of opportunities. Before sometimes you were reliant on maybe third party integration's to get things done. But with a lot of their newer rollouts, it's all inclusive out of the box. There's a HubL solution for a lot of things now. So that's amazing.
Dustin: Absolutely. And I think the the flip side is the front end. A marketer or salesperson — you know, Michael's not a technical expert on the team. He's our sales guy. And so him being able to go edit a page or create a page, that's completely changed. The power that he has and the flexibility. In the previous life of HubSpot CMS you had to create templates and you used flexible columns and hoped that it was flexible enough.
Tyler: Right.
Dustin: So it was like, we're going to give this a two column there — they're equal size, right? But then Michael would go in there and be like, well, I want a third column or, hey, I want this column to be a little bigger, right? I want it to take two thirds instead of 50/50. And it was this headache to go edit the template. Michael would go in and edit the template. He probably did this. He would go into the template and break it. Right? Like something would go wrong. It's not working how it's supposed to. Then he calls one of us and was like, "Hey, this is an issue. I need this fixed."
That was kind of the the workflow for most people. You either lived with the way the template was built and just made your content fit to it, or you tried to fix it yourself and broke something. Or you had to go to a developer and say, "Hey, here's what I need." Then the developer's like, well this is a five minute change and it's annoying. I shouldn't have to do this.
But now, you can go in there — Michael can go in there and say, we have I have a two column here. I need it to be a three column. Let me just drag this over. Let me just add a new module here. Let me add a column, and it takes him two seconds. It's really changed and shifted the power to marketers and to salespeople to say, I have this page that I need to edit or I need to create a new page and I can go do that. The drag and drop functionality has gone through the roof.
Tyler: Yeah, it's huge. It also cuts down a lot — because there's always this conversation between say, marketers or anybody and developers. It seems like a really easy fix. And they're like, "Yo, I just want this thing done. Why can I not do this?" I
t really cuts down on that headache and that conversation. If anybody's ever had that — because it is easy on the surface level, it should be easy. And this is actually taking steps to to make easy things actually be easy.
Dustin: Yeah, I feel like that's every developer's like least favorite message: "Hey, just an easy change. Just a quick change."
Tyler: [Laughing] Yeah.
Dustin: I think that you're right, that's probably always going to be a thing. There's always going to be something that comes up and "Hey, I have a quick change." And you're like, well, that quick change is actually a half day's work, you know.
But you're right that we would get those those requests that are like, "Hey, I just need a quick change. Can you change this on the template?" And it ends up being like, well, no, like I've got to rebuild that or I've got to, you know, create a new template for this so it can do what you need it to do but doesn't break these other pages.
Tyler: Yeah, exactly.
Dustin: Or you didn't think about the other pages. You made the change and you broke those other pages.
Tyler: Yeah, exactly. That's the other side of it.
Dustin: And I think there are a lot of reasons that people go with whatever CMS they want to use. There's so many of them out there. It's possible that I was on Facebook the other day and ranted about colleges only teaching students how to use Wix and Weebly and all these free super basic websites themselves. But there's WordPress, there's the Wix, the Weebly. GoDaddy has a builder. There's Squarespace and HubSpot CMS.
HubSpot CMS to me — for most of the time that we've been with HubSpot, we've been HubSpot partner for six plus years now, most of that time I looked at HubSpot CMS is like, you can go play with the Wix and the Weebly — you're not useful to me. But over the last few years, it's changed so dramatically. We were always pro WordPress. Everything that we did, we wanted to do on WordPress because it was just more flexible. We had more power.
But it's changed so much that we've even gotten away from WordPress. When we're talking about a client who wants a new website, we're suggesting HubSpot. We're saying HubSpot CMS is actually better. Which is kind of crazy to think two years ago, we would have never said that.
Tyler: Yeah, they were still they were still very new in the space. Especially if you're wanting to engage as far as, you know, your online presence, HubSpot is really making their name in that space. As far as being more than just a website builder, they're becoming a huge.
Michael: Let me jump in here, because I've been letting the developers talk and everything's been a little bit over my head.
Dustin: Welcome to the party, Michael.
Michael: No, I appreciate you guys letting me be on your podcast today. User experience is going to be great, like you said, from the marketer or sales or copywriter perspective. It makes it a lot easier in HubSpot.
But if right now I'm thinking about, OK, I've got a website on Wix or Squarespace or we've been a WordPress website for the last 10 years, walk me through what this process looks like. Do I sign up for the HubSpot CMS and then I can pick out my theme? Do I have to blindly select my theme or do I get to go through and say, oh, these three or four look good? Do I need to hire a developer then?
Walk me through what this looks like from, "Hey, we are looking at getting a new website. We want to do it on HubSpot."
Dustin: I think there's a few different ways that somebody looks at that. If you are looking at, this HubSpot CMS thing might be for me.
Now, there are two different options. They have a pro version and an enterprise version. And on the surface, HubSpot CMS looks more expensive than all other options. You look at it — Pro is three hundred bucks a month, Enterprise is nine hundred bucks a month. And a lot of people will get scared off by that. They look at that like, "Oh God. Why would I do that?" Wix is ten dollars a month. WordPress is free, but I think the difference is — people aren't considering additional costs. They have to take into account maintenance, security, CDN, hosting, SSL certificate. There's so many different pieces that go into the cost of a website, but people get scared off by oh, it's three hundred dollars. Why would I spend three hundred dollars a month on my website? When in reality, you're spending that whether you realize it or not.
Tyler: Right.
Dustin: WordPress has — a quarter of all websites in the world are on WordPress. But anyone that's on WordPress also has to deal with hosting and getting your own SSL certificate and managing if you have malware or hacking attempts. You have to manage all of your updates, your WordPress versions, your plugin versions, your theme versions. If something goes down, you're kind of at the mercy of your hosting provider, right? If something happens, that plugin gets updated and it's incompatible, your website goes down. Now you're on the phone with GoDaddy or Blue Host or whoever saying, "Hey, my website's down. Help!" And you're just kind of at their mercy. Whereas all of those things are taken care of on the HubSpot side.
Once you decide whether you're a HubSpot CMS pro or enterprise kind of business, then you start to look at: what what does our website need to be? Because you can have a custom website or custom theme built. We see a lot that people have a website on WordPress or something like that. They're like, "Hey, we want the same website. We want it to look the same way. We just need it to perform better. It needs to be faster. It needs to have better content, needs tighter CRM, all of those things."
So in that case, you can have a developer build a custom theme to match what you already have. And that's what's beautiful about the new CMS is that you can do that. We do that a lot, actually, where we're matching the style of something out of another site or even like a wireframe or mockup, something like that, so that it comes through in the HubSpot CMS just like you want it to.
But once you're in there, you do have access. Once you have a HubSpot account, you have access to HubSpot Marketplace and that's where you can look through and see both paid and free versions of themes. And I think there's like 17 free versions now — shameless plug, we did build two of them. Our Buzz theme and Drop theme are free in the HubSpot marketplace. I'll include a link in this video. But you can go in there, you can download the themes, it takes 30 seconds to install, and then you can start building pages and start editing things. You have that out of the box place to get started. And you don't necessarily need a developer because that's already been built.
Michael: Right. Yeah, and I do want to bring up the point that with WordPress, like you mentioned, twenty five percent of the world's websites are built on WordPress. When you were talking about HubSpot, you were saying there's dozens of free themes, dozens of paid themes. And at first you think dozens — like that's not very many. But then you think about WordPress and it's like, do you know how cluttered their marketplace in general is for just different integrations and APIs and themes and X, Y and Z? You could be buying the wrong one. Or one that's not going to work well for what you want it to do or whatever it might be.
And just because there's 17 free HubSpot themes, it doesn't mean every 17th website is going to look the exact same. There's definitely that customizable feel to it. It's going to be your own website, something that you're proud of. With WordPress, it gets so convoluted and crazy that you could miss the actual tool that you need or be buying the wrong one or be buying a low quality one or whatever it might be. Versus HubSpot has that quality.
Dustin: Well, and that's what's so hard — nothing is regulated with WordPress. WordPress does not manage or own those themes, those plugins. They have their random free ones that WordPress develops — the 2019 theme that has no functionality. But in general, anyone can build a WordPress theme. Anyone can build a WordPress plug in or extension. And there's no checks and balances, right? If they built it, they can sell it. If it works, great. If it doesn't, that sucks. There's no regulation to quality. And there's just so many options out there that, like you said, I'm looking for a plug in to do X, but finding that can be really difficult. And you look through the documentation or the reviews or the description of a plug in — and anyone who's ever worked on a WordPress website, you're like, oh, yeah, that's that's what I need. And then you get it and you're like, what the hell? It didn't do anything that I needed it to do.
Tyler: Yeah.
Dustin: It's so frustrating, whereas the HubSpot marketplace is so much more refined and it's so much smaller. To your point, the number of themes, the number of modules, things like that, doesn't even scratch the surface of WordPress. But it's growing and it's growing with quality, not just when some random guy is like, oh yeah, I'm going to throw together some terrible code and make this a minimum viable plugin for one little thing that doesn't work with your theme, you know?
Tyler: Right.
Michael: Right. Yeah. I mean, it sounds kind of like that. And we love WordPress. We still develop on WordPress and a lot of our clients still have WordPress websites. So it's not to say, you're not going to find quality over there ever. Or you can't build a great website off of WordPress, because you certainly can't. But it's kind of that quality of like a big box store like Target. You're going to get a great website, you know. You know what you're going to get.
On HubSpot, you're getting that boutique. It's a little bit more individual. It's probably going to last longer and it just has that better feel for you.
Dustin: Yeah, I think it's just a matter of how flexible do you need things to be? How easy do you need the front end to be for your marketing or sales team? How much flexibility do you need for your development team? And do you want to be managing all the maintenance stuff, the security stuff, the issues that come up? And do you need it tied to your other efforts?
That was one of the big things for us. We we moved to a HubSpot CMS website, I guess, a couple of years ago now. And that was a big thing for us. We were able to tie it to our CRM. We can create smart content. We can tie it to our marketing efforts. We can tie it to our sales effort, our service efforts — everything's under one roof. And it makes management reporting all of that so much easier and so much better.
Michael: Yeah, it really avoids that kind of like Franken-stack dilemma.
Dustin: Yeah, right. It can be super tough when you — as you're kind of putting things together, looking at like, OK, my CRM is HubSpot, but I'm using Zoho for this and I'm using Pardot for that. And I also have Salesforce and my website is on WordPress and my chat is on Drift. You have a million different places and many different logins for things and they don't all necessarily talk well. That's a shift that we've all, I think every business is needing to make. The more you can have like an all in one, the better.
Michael: Totally. All right, well, thank you for letting me chime in and steal your podcast Tyler.
Tyler: Go ahead, man. Go ahead.
Dustin: Awesome. So, Tyler, do you have any — to kind of wrap up this topic — do you have any tips that you have for somebody that is looking at the HubSpot CMS? Where do I go with this? How do I get started? Anything like that?
Tyler: Yeah, I mean, if it was if it was me and I was just now looking into it, I would just go on there and just play with them. You know, like you were saying, there's a bunch of there's a bunch of free ones. You go on there, download ours, give them a look over, see if it's going to work. You can play with the settings and it's not going to be, it's not permanent right away. But I think what you'll find is pretty early on that it's just a lot easier to use. And you're going to be saving yourself a lot of time and a lot of headache if you were to go forward with it.
Granted, there may be an investment of time on your part to get it up and running, but in the long term, you'll be you'll be thanking yourself that you did it. And so that would be my first tip — just go to the marketplace, download something, and just give it a shot. Just check it out.
Dustin: Yeah, I think that's a good good point. Like you're not going to break anything. I feel like everyone's always kind of worried about that. Right? Like, I don't want to just play with things because what if I break HubSpot. Well that's not really a thing. You know, where if you start downloading a bunch of plugins and playing with a lot of things on a WordPress site, you have the potential to break things.
Tyler: Yeah, sounds like a recipe for disaster. I wouldn't recommend that WordPress. But yeah, definitely, just give them a shot. I think if you've been in HubSpot for a little while or even if you haven't been, you know, even if you're coming over from another framework, it'll be a sigh of relief or if not, it'll be open up more opportunities for you.
Dustin: And one thing that we didn't really mention is that themes can be used outside of the CMS, too. So landing pages, thank you pages, your blog — all of that can be run through a HubSpot theme as well. So even if you're just using marketing or whatever, you can now use themes to better support those other pages. So you don't have to have your whole website on HubSpot in order to use these.
Tyler: Right now, it's a good point.
Dustin: So the last segment here is how's the buzz? How's that Lagunitas treating you guys?
Michael: Well, because I didn't speak for the first 20 minutes of the podcast, I got through quite a bit of my beer. But I've always loved Lagunitas. Since the ripe age of twenty one, it's always been a go to for me. I do like the IPA. I'm jealous Tyler's been drinking that, but I still love that ale that they've got.
Tyler: Yeah, I've hardly touched mine, but I'm going to put in some work here shortly, and I can't complain. I can't complain. I like a good IPA, so.
Dustin: You know, I don't think I've actually ever had Lagunitas, and I'm a little bummed that I didn't get some for the podcast today.
Michael: Highly recommend.
Tyler: Wow. Something came up. I suddenly got to go all of a sudden, you know.
Michael: If you like IPAs Dustin...
Dustin: I do.
Michael: Lagunitas IPA — it's not too powerful, not too hoppy. They don't try to — it's just very simple sipping. I should work for them.
Tyler: You should! Simple sipping.
Dustin: All of a sudden, they have a new tagline. We're going to see it on commercials.
Michael: Right?
Dustin: I mean, I feel like I've had mine on the podcast before, so. [Holds up empty glass]
Michael: Oh, my God, I was going to make fun of you because I didn't see you take a single sip the entire time.
Dustin: I did!
Tyler: Put in work.
Michael: Either that or Arrow's been coming around just drinking it up.
Dustin: He's drunk. No, I'm a fan. I like the Breckenridge and Boulder gins. I feel like they're both really good local gin. So those are kind of my go-to's.
Michael: You're a gin guy.
Dustin: I am.
Well great. Thanks for joining us, Tyler! We're excited about season three. We're going to have every podcast transcribed now. You'll have a blog post that you can read about and, you know, if you missed anything or need to go back and see what Tyler said in that one part you can absolutely do that. We'll have that coming out here shortly, as well.
Be sure to like and subscribe, and we'll see you next time. Cheers!
Michael: See you, guys.
Whew, that's the end of the month's podcast! Check in next month for Season 3, Episode 2 or check out some of our past podcasts covering a wide range of marketing, sales, and beer topics!
